What are practical ways men can reflect the image of God by being holistically pro-life?

Human Dignity

Amy Ford: Pastor Darin, I feel lately I’ve been talking to men, and when this issue of being holistically pro-life comes up, they backpedal a little bit. And the one phrase I hear all the time is, “Well, I mean, I’m not a woman.” And so, then all of a sudden they get nervous about voicing their thoughts, which also makes it so that they’re nervous to even get involved in the movement in some way.  

I’ve interviewed a couple of guys for positions at our office, and I’ve just noticed that a little bit lately, and these are Christians that have… So, what do you think that hesitancy… I want to talk to you about some ideas how men can get in the movement practically, but before we even go there, what do you think is the hesitancy with men, in general, of being nervous to jump in? And how can they get around that? You’re a guy. So, tell me, how can I help them in this way?  

Darin Burns: One of the things I found out with young men is that many of them have not had the opportunity to witness what I call the role of a man. There’s so many times they’ve been raised in certain households. It’s not even about a single-mom household. It’s just the fact that they have not seen enough men. And so, therefore, they’re afraid to be the man because… but inside they want to be the man. They just don’t know how to be the man because they’ve never really seen the man. And I think one of the big things is that we’ve got to find seasoned men to come alongside these other young men and say it’s okay to be a man. 

It’s okay to feel a certain way and it’s okay to stand because kids will go out and young men will go out, and they’ll stand for these other things. And basically, what young men do, you’ll notice they go with the group, and whatever the group influence is, they’ll just follow the group. But a lot of times in their heart, they don’t want to be with the group. 

They really want to be their own man, but they don’t know how to do that yet. And so sometimes, they just need reinforcement to know it’s okay to be what you are and what God’s called you to.  

Amy Ford: Right. I think that it’s just an issue that can be triggering for some people. Some people do get really upset about pro-life and pro-choice and all of that. 

And so maybe they just need permission, like you just said, to say it’s okay for you to have a voice. I know when you look at the top five reasons why women have abortions, one of them has to do with the guy, the man, and so they do have an influence in what that decision-making process is. And how amazing would it be if more men in the world stood up, even as fathers of the baby to say, “Even if we’re not together and me and this baby mom are not in a relationship, but I am going to step forward and be a dad to this child.” 

But I think I’ve noticed that a lot of the dads, they never had dads themselves, just what you were just saying. They don’t know even practically what that looks like. But I agree, it really comes down to discipleship, right? Going back to the basics.  

Darin Burns: It does. It does. As a pastor, and I am serving with an underserved community, I find that all the time. And sometimes, and I’ll give you a couple examples. I had a young man one time, we went out to lunch and when we got to the restaurant, he didn’t know what to do. And I was like, “You okay?” He says, “Pastor, I’ve never been to a restaurant with a menu.” And he was 19 years old, and other times they just never have had life experiences. 

So, they had just never had an opportunity to see. They’ve been in survival mode. They’ve been using instinctive behavior most of their life. And I think that’s where the church has to come up with, you said discipleship, and I love your Embrace Legacy program because you were doing Embrace Grace for the women, but when you brought Embrace Legacy on, it really started dealing with these single dads. And it was such a great program. And as we began to look at it in our church, I’m like, “Wait a minute, what about these dads, these young men that aren’t dads yet? I want them to be ready for when they become a father.” 

The hope is they marry first, but if they do become a father, I want them to embrace what they are and who they are, made in the likeness and image of God.  

Amy Ford: That’s so good.  

Darin Burns: And so, we’ve started to just spend time with them. Not so much on the aspect of, “Okay, this is what you need to be a dad. These are the parts of you, of how to be a man.” And when they’re just around other men and have opportunities and letting someone know… Can I share something with you that happened?  

Amy Ford: Yes!  

Darin Burns: This past Sunday, God led me to do a message on Gideon, and everybody knows the story of Gideon. He had this big army of 22,000 and God carved it down to 300. And so, Sunday, I looked up and there was all these young men at church. I had never seen some of these young men before. They were invited by other people. 

And so, I’m a big demonstrative pastor. So, we have a big demonstration. I said, “I need all my young men in here!” People probably thought I was crazy. So, I got all these young guys up there, and I’m talking the story of Gideon. And so I said, “Okay, we got to carve this army down. So, the first thing we do is take a journey.” 

So, I actually run around the sanctuary.  

Amy Ford: You literally ran around the sanctuary. Love it. He came to the front. That’s a charismatic church.  

Darin Burns: Then we got to the front, and I said, “Okay, so now we got to carve this army down. I know everybody’s probably tired and thirsty, so you got to get some water.” And so in the middle of it, I said, because God’s going to anoint some of us. And in the middle of this message, this kid says, never been to the church in his life, he says, “What does it mean to be anointed?” And so many pastors would’ve said, “Well, what do you… No, I’ll talk to you later.”  

No, I stopped the message. I says, “We’re gonna explain to you what anointed is, because that’s the same question the others had,” but this is the bigger part.  

So they go. They had to go get water. Now, I did not give them any clues. I didn’t tell ’em anything about the story of Gideon. Most of the people that were there got on their knees. And they started lapping like a dog. That young man got on his knees, and cupped his hands like Gideon’s men. And I was like, “Oh my God.” And I said, I stopped the message. 

I said, “You got it.” And so the other guy next to him looked at him and says, “Okay, I’m going to get it to it.”  

Amy Ford: Oh, that’s how you do it.  

Darin Burns: And so the irony of it was, he wasn’t the, I’m not going to go into his past or what his issues were, but it impressed me so much. I said, “God is still the same.” And so these young men just need an opportunity those 300 Gideon had to go out there and fight.  

And one of the other young men asked me, says, “Well, Pastor, how come I didn’t get chosen in the 300?” I says, “Because your job is to do what the other men did, is make sure the enemy doesn’t escape.” So, it’s teaching these young men the different roles they have. 

But I’m gonna be honest. The one that did it would have been my last guess. I thought it was one of the guys that come to church, that even knew the story. But he was the one that did it. I hope that makes sense.  

Amy Ford: Yeah.  

Darin Burns: And so I think it’s all about… these young men are hungry for a dad. They’re hungry for a father. They’re hungry, and they just need men to step up and show.  

Amy Ford: Does that look like practically? How have you seen it look where a man disciples or takes a younger man under his wing? And whether he’s a dad or a future dad, like you were just saying, what does that look like? 

Darin Burns: Yeah, I think the first thing it is, I use the God-scenario, relationship. I just build relationship, and I tell my men at the church, “Let’s just go build a relationship.” So, one of the first things I do, I say, “What do you like to do? What are your hobbies? What do you, what gets you?” And it can be something I’m polar opposite of, but I start to do that first. 

And with that being said, once we build the trust, because most of these young men, they don’t. But if you build trust., you then can build that relationship. But I tell our mentors and our men that work with men, one of the key things is you can’t let them down. You’ve got to be there, and if you can only do it once a month, you can only do it once a month. But I believe these young men are looking for guidance, and actually, I think they’re looking for discipline, too. Because we look at them being undisciplined, but I think they want to be tamed again. 

Amy Ford: I have Embrace Grace, which you mentioned earlier, which is the support groups for single and pregnant moms. And so sometimes the baby dads are involved, which we always hope that they are. But I know one time, a baby dad really had a dream of starting or doing construction. He really had naturally some giftings, but no one had really ever trained him, nor did he have the finances to get any kind of professional training. 

Okay. So, there was this Embrace Grace mom, which, Embrace Grace, it’s support groups for single and pregnant young women, which you have at your church too, which we’re so thankful to partner with you on that.  

The very first one was back in 2008 at my church when it first started. And so, her baby dad, now they’re married and they’re doing so amazing. They’re involved in the church, all that. But she had told me that, and I didn’t never knew this until 10 years later, but she had told me that her now husband who was the baby dad, and they were only 16 and 17 when they got pregnant, that he had a dream of working construction, but really craftsmanship, but he didn’t really know how to. 

He didn’t have the finances to do any kind of official schooling or anything to have to do with that and that there was a man at the church who had a construction company. And he felt he had found out about this single dad at our church because they weren’t married at the time. And he felt the Lord told him to hire him even though he had no credentials or background or history. 

It was a kid, but to take him under his wing and not just hire him and give him a job with a paycheck, but also to disciple him spiritually and to help him practically with knowing how to be a dad, but then also teaching him the skill and the trade. And he took him under his wing and, and this guy never had a dad himself. And so he became like a father figure.  

And now he has a super successful, his own company where he’s remodeling houses, remodeling kitchens, all kinds of stuff. And he’s such a great dad, such a great dad and such a great husband to his wife. And a big part of that was because someone took the time, and he could have been like, “I don’t have time. I got my own company, my construction company. I don’t have time to pour into someone else.” But he made that a priority, and it changed this guy’s life.  

Darin Burns: Yeah, that’s important. I got a call a year ago from a young man, and I had not heard from him since he was a little youngster in high school. 

And he just said, “I called to just tell you, thank you.” And I was like, “okay.” And so, fast forward, my wife and I were in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And I have not seen this young man in many, many years. I’ve never met his wife, and I’ve never seen him. He has four children that are the oldest ones going into their teen years. 

So, that’s how long it’s been. And we were attending a church, my wife and I. And I was just an associate elder. But, I knew that there had a single mom in the household. So, all the time, him and his sisters would come to our house all the time. Spend the night. We took him places. I didn’t think nothing about it, but I’m just helping out and being a good guy. 

He called me, and actually we had the same conversation in Grand Rapids. He says, “All of this is because of you and your wife.” I says, “Pardon me?” Because I was shocked. I said, “What?” He says, ” Pastor?” He said, “Darin.” He called me Darin. He said I never saw a dad. He says, “But when I would come to your house, you just treated me…” And he told me the stories.  

“And remember that big bowl you had because all I wanted was cereal.” And I always gave the kids that came to our church, to our home, my wife and I gave free reign here. This is where, ” I’m not gonna serve you food. So here’s here… I’m going to take a nap, or I’m going to do this. You guys can stay and do what you want to do next three days, I don’t care.” 

Amy Ford: I love that.  

Darin Burns: But he said to me, “I never saw a family. I never saw structure.” And he says, “I watched you raise your daughters, and I watched you and your wife,” and he said, “It showed me family.” And I said, that’s what I want.  

Amy Ford: Yeah. He found a place where he belonged.  

Darin Burns: He found a place. Now he has a Master’s degree, doing super well, and just doing it. He works in the nonprofit space now and also the for-profit space and some different things. 

But the cool thing was I looked at these four kids and I’m like, “Whoa.” So, all it took, like you said, just when God lays it in your heart, you just do what you do.  

Amy Ford: Being obedient.  

Darin Burns: Yeah, being obedient. You don’t have an answer to every question.  

Amy Ford: Right.  

Darin Burns: Just be there.  

Amy Ford: Right. Be willing.  

Darin Burns: And God does the rest. Little did I know that it would be a generational impact.  

Amy Ford: Wow.  

Darin Burns: And his sisters are all doing great. All with families, married. Just, it amazes me. And all we did was just say, “We’re going to the go-kart track today. You guys want to go?”  

Amy Ford: Yeah. Just invited them to be a part. It wasn’t a “teach me,” which I’m sure that part was a part of it too, but it was a “show me,” and that he got to see what a family looks like. 

Okay. I get the whole discipleship, taking the guys under their wings, future dads or dads. That is a holistically pro-life thing that we can do. Men and women to help take people under a wing. What other practical ways, if a guy was like, “Okay, yes, I’m already discipling someone,” but what might be other ways that men could get involved in the movement? Do you have any thoughts?  

I will say one thing really quick. I know my husband, because I lead Embrace Grace, he was like, “Well, what can I do?” And one time we… my husband’s really good at budgeting, a little too good at budgeting, if you know what I mean? And we had a single mom was like, she got him. She doesn’t have the best credit. She got a tote-the-note car with high interest rate because they sold her that. She didn’t really ever have a dad that taught her how to find good deals on interest. She didn’t understand all of that, but my husband is the best at that.  

And so I was like, “Okay, think about what strengths and gifts did God put inside of you and what brings you joy?” And he’s like, “I do love finances.” He has a financial advisory certification, and he has an insurance agency. That’s what he loves. And so I was like, “There’s a couple of single moms that could really use some mentorship in this area. How about I bring him to the house and I’ll sit with her, and you can teach her and I’ll learn some things too? And you could just look at her bank account, and see if you’ve got some tips on how to help her so that she’s not so surviving every… she’s just trying to make it through the day, and it’s hard for her to dream. How can we help her with that?” 

And he did. He did so good at it, and gave her some tips on some future jobs that she could do right now that would help her get towards her dream. But that’s his strengths. Have you seen any other within the church or people getting involved with their strengths as men?  

Darin Burns: Yeah, I think your husband just knocked it out of the park. That is what we have to teach these men to do. Don’t try to come in and be something that you’re not. 

Amy Ford: Yeah, just be you.  

Darin Burns: Just be you. And just be holistic. I mean… Somebody needs to do finances. Somebody else has to do a resume. Somebody wants to start a business.  

Amy Ford: Yeah, that’s good. Resume. Start a business.  

Darin Burns: Business, whatever. They can add value to the pro-life movement because really it’s Stand For Life. It’s holistic life. I love what you, I believe, if I get it right with your organization, I think you, what is it? Pro-stance?  

Amy Ford: Pro-love.  

Darin Burns: Yeah, pro, yeah.  

Amy Ford: That’s my shirt. Pro-life is a stance. Pro-love is an action.  

Darin Burns: Yeah. I love that because that’s what it is, and I think holistically, if we could just get people to work in the lane, in the venue that God gave them, a couple things. I started actually during Covid I saw the need. Number one, I started an organization called God-Preneurs. God-Preneurs.  

Amy Ford: Oh, oh. God-Preneurs. Oh.  

Darin Burns: And it helps young people. I started out with entrepreneurship, but then I realized some don’t want to be entrepreneurs, but they need to, they want to enhance their skills, go to the next level of the occupation and/or the area they work in. And that’s one area, and to your credit, I’m starting a new plan right now. It’s called The Road to 850. How do we take people who have had challenges with credit to get him to that perfect credit? 

Amy Ford: Right. 

Darin Burns: So, these are the things like your husband is doing. These are the simple things we can do to impact the pro-life movement. It’s more than, getting out there and saying, “I don’t…”  

Amy Ford: “This is what I believe” or whatever, which it’s good to use our voice. But when we put the action behind it, that’s where the magic happens. 

Darin Burns: Anything. A tutor, whatever your gift is for the body for these young men and these young women and the children because it’s going to make a generational impact either way because that’s the gift God gave you, and that’s what God told you to do. And the example I use for people is in the Bible. There’s a story about this young… We always say, “The battle is not yours, but the battle is the Lord’s,” Jahaziel. 

But that is the only time that guy ever spoke. He was, he never spoke, he never said nothing. He just, that one time. And he changed the course of destiny for Israel. The battle is not yours; the battle is the Lord’s. So, I think I tell men, don’t devalue or undervalue your contribution. It may be coming in after the Embrace Grace group and cleaning up. 

And then you grab another couple of young guys or somebody else to do it with you. It teaches them service. It teaches them humility. So, there’s just whatever you do. 

Amy Ford: And Embrace Legacy, starting an Embrace Legacy group, which is a 12-week curriculum for young dads. That sometimes can be the hook, not the hook, but to get them in the door to even open up the trust, like you were saying. They are not sure they trust you all the way, but over the course of 12 weeks, they start to. And then it can develop into, an ongoing relationship.  

I notice I have one 24-year-old, a 20-year-old, and a 16-year-old, and then a little one, but those three teenagers and young 20s, all their friends, I noticed that they say this all the time that they’re like, “I need a mentor.” They always say that. They say that word where truly it is discipleship. It’s like going back to the basics of what the last thing Jesus said before He went to the cross, to go and make disciples. And doing that and walking alongside them, sometimes you have to help them with the practical first before they start opening their hearts to more of the gospel. You just have to be Holy Spirit led, right?  

There’s not a cookie-cutter way to help empower a young man or a young woman to make a life decision but listening to the Holy Spirit and what He’s saying. What does this person need? And then introducing him to their Rescuer.  

Darin Burns: Yeah, and you just triggered one more thought with me that as we talk about men, and in many churches the men are the men that are pastors, and sometimes they feel, “What can I do? I don’t have… I have a small church. I don’t have the resources. I don’t have this. I don’t have that.” You use what you have.  

And if, for example, I go to our church, for example, we just got a baby shower coming, here’s a space.  

Amy Ford: Which is huge.  

Darin Burns: It’s huge. It’s a load. Hey, I know it may sound small, but we just opened up our church, for example, to Little League. And they said, “Hey, just use the church for your meetings and things like that.” Because now I’m realizing how many…  

Amy Ford: Tony Evans does that, too. I love it.  

Darin Burns: Does he? I didn’t know that.  

Amy Ford: Yeah.  

Darin Burns: It was so funny because it all started with… during COVID. This is a crazy story and maybe I’m getting off subject when I told our church that I’m going down the street and that 20-year dilapidated park, we’re getting ready to renovate. They thought I was insane and out of my mind until I took my rototill down and started rototilling the baseball field. But the point I’m making is I was looking for the first time, and I noticed one thing at the baseball games after 20 years. They’re playing T-ball on that field. They had not played.  

But here’s the thing. During that time, I met so many moms. Single dads and single moms with children. Then I recognize many of them are out there playing in the struggles they have and things like that. But whatever you can do to impact that community to show people that you care about their lives, that what Stand For Life is. That’s all you do. 

So, I encourage small churches. I encourage underserved churches and underserved areas: just do whatever you can. No, the biggest thing is always, “I need money,” but I really believe that God brings the increase. That’s what the Bible says. God will bring the increase. Just do whatever it is.  

Amy Ford: Yeah, what’s in your hand right now? 

Darin Burns: And there was a bishop, a pastor in Detroit, Bishop Michael Hill. He preached a message and that’s what catapulted me during COVID. He said, “I don’t care if you got to make bologna sandwiches and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Cut them in half and do it.”  

Amy Ford: Yeah.  

Darin Burns: And I said, “Wow, he’s right.” So, from that day forward, I didn’t worry about anything. I just did. I did. I’m like Nike, just do it.  

Amy Ford: Yeah. I love that. Okay. Super quick. Practically, I’m thinking of a couple of random ideas that I’ve seen men use whatever strength it… might not be the mentorship, but I know there’s a guy in Florida who… He’s a really good networker, and he goes to all these churches in his community, even outside of his community to make sure they know what the local pregnancy centers are. He helps make sure that they know that there’s Embrace Grace and Embrace Life Groups. He wants to help equip them to be pro-life in their way as a church, which is awesome.  

I know we have a lot of single moms that struggle with not having a father-figure for their child. And I know an adult single mom who said that when she was young, whenever it was donuts with dad, it was always this… she would have so much anxiety because she didn’t have a dad. And there was a pastor that stepped up, and he would just show up at the school, and he would sit with this little girl or a little boy and be that dad. And then he’d leave when it was over, but it met the world to her.  

And then I know another guy who’s a T-ball coach for a little league in a low-income area. And there’s a lot of single moms. And I know the single mom and her little boy’s about five or six. And he looks at this coach as a father figure. And this coach has showed up at some of his school stuff. That’s like dad-stuff, even though he just…  

Darin Burns: Right. 

Amy Ford: He’s married and has kids. But he notices that these boys, they need a father-figure. So that’s another way that men… it’s like, how can you step in appropriately? And you can get advice from your pastor, counsel from a pastor and what that looks like, but there’s so many kids that need even just dad help like, how do you tie a tie or how do you change your tire on your car. There’s so many ways to, and that helps empower a single mom because if she’s worried about not choosing life because there’s not a dad figure, then having the church step in and said, “We will fill all of those gaps,” then that will help her feel more empowered in her life decision. 

Darin Burns: It will, and I find in my experience as a pastor, the young men or young women that would even what I say, “bridge the immediate thought of” not letting the child live, it’s because of their social-economic woes, and on end, or I’m going to… they’re going to wind up just like me, but I say, “No, they’re not going to… they’re going to wind up like you. You’re right because you’re going to be here.” 

And so, I think that’s a big issue. And I think once the church and once we tell people, tell these men, hey, that basically, “We’re gonna walk with you. We’re gonna,” like you just said, “We’re going to be there for you. And this happens, man. We’re going to figure it out.” 

Amy Ford: “We are a family, and we’re going to figure this out.” I love that.  

Darin Burns: The we.  

Amy Ford: Yeah, right. And I just feel like too, if anybody is watching on social media or wherever, if you’re a guy and you’re like, “Yeah. I feel disqualified to be able to do that.” Maybe it’s because of the past. Maybe they’ve helped facilitate or pay for an abortion or something. I hear that a lot for men, too. Like, “Who am I when I did this?” But Revelation 12:11 says, “We overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony.” So, sharing our story and mentoring these guys and saying, “This is what I went through, and I don’t want this for you. This is what God taught me. And this is how God heals.” Makes a huge difference.  

But God qualifies us and God qualifies these men. We need more men in the movement for sure. As a woman, I say, “Yes, we need more men,” and I’m sure you feel the same way.  

Darin Burns: Yes.  

Amy Ford: Yeah. You see the need.  

Darin Burns: Yeah, we need men just to step up and it’s okay to say, ” I choose life. I choose child. I choose love, and I’m going to be an advocate for that.” And there’s nothing ashamed of it. I’m bold about it. I’m never going to change my…  

Amy Ford: Do it.  

Darin Burns: I’m going to bold it about it. And if a young lady has had an abortion or a young man has been a part of one, Hey, I’m going to love you just the same. We’re going to love you back.  

Amy Ford: The church is a safe place for you to come to as well, healing groups and yeah, for sure.  

Darin Burns: Yeah. They feel ashamed, and I don’t want them to feel ashamed because we all have sinned and come short. My wife and I talk about it. I know our time is winding up, but our daughter, we have a daughter that was pregnant at 17 in high school, and this is the story that, and I, we talked, she knows she was raised in a Christian home, and when she became pregnant, she didn’t tell us at first. And when she finally did tell us, later on, she told me, she says, “Dad, I won’t lie to you. Abortion crossed my mind because I didn’t want to embarrass you in mine.” She says, “But the values you put in me caused me to make this decision.”  

And so, I was asking the Lord how do I deal with this because I want to make sure… I know I love my daughter I’m not gonna go out there and make her the scarlet letter. I’m gonna walk with her. And she didn’t want to go to prom because she was pregnant, and I remember that, and so I took her to dinner. We did our own prom. I’ll never forget that. And her and I went to dinner, and I was her date. She didn’t want to go to the big prom dance. She was embarrassed. I said, “okay.”  

But she did go to graduation. But this was the thing. I asked the Lord something. And God said this to me. He says… she went on to college.  

And the Lord said to me this. She was debating on whether or not she could go to college. So I says, “No, you’re going to finish your dreams.” And I went down to the University of Detroit. I enrolled her, put her in the dorm. And I said, “Me and your mom are going to take care of this baby.” And this is what God said. He said, “It’s like riding a horse. She was on the horse the first time and she fell.” He says, “But if you don’t get her back on that horse, she’ll never ride again.”  

Amy Ford: Oh, that’s good.  

Darin Burns: And so, sometimes, people that have made mistakes, you have to encourage them to get back on the horse. You may fall again. Yeah. But if you don’t get on the horse, You’re gonna be so fearful you will never ride again, and you’ll live the rest of your life in fear. 

That young lady, first year, her testimony is very simple. She actually flunked out. She just didn’t, couldn’t cope with the pressure. She still finished college in four years. Wow. She had to repeat the whole first year. She amazes me. She finished at the University of Detroit. She went on to… she says, “I don’t think I want to do this. I think I’m going to be a paramedic.” So she put to be a paramedic, “Nah. I don’t want to do that either.” And she went back to the healthcare field. Now she’s a nurse living in Florida.  

And I say that because as a pastor and that’s a dad, we had to deal with this, and we just loved her to life. That little girl…  

Amy Ford: Loved her to life. That’s so good.  

Darin Burns: So, you love her to life. And so, I have to encourage people that if you’ve had these issues, it’s okay. We all have made mistakes. We all got it. We all got baggage, but you got to get back on the horse.  

Amy Ford: Yes.  

Darin Burns: The Lord said to me…  

Amy Ford: That’s so good. Hey, that’s a word for somebody. That’s a word for somebody today. Thank you so much for just even talking about this and being bold with… 

Darin Burns: Thank you.  

Amy Ford: With your stance, but not just your stance, but the action behind it. And empowering your people and the people that are at your church and the people that you’re in life to be bold, and find their place in the movement. Find their place and how they can help serve these single moms and dads. So, and you know, I appreciate it.  

Darin Burns: I wanna just say this. You have one of the most amazing ministries with Embrace Grace. 

Amy Ford: Oh, thank you.  

Darin Burns: And it has blessed my heart. It’s blessing our church. And I’m just in awe of what God’s already done through you, and I think the Embrace Legacy pivot was so amazing with these men, and we’re just pivoting, I’m just following that pivot, and we started out really focusing on this embracement with these young women. But these young men keep piling in and that’s amazing.  

Amy Ford: If we have more dads in the world, we could change the world. So good.  

Darin Burns: Thank you for what you do.  

Amy Ford: Thank you so much.